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Post by ladytass2001 on Aug 13, 2004 13:35:44 GMT -5
Hi all!! Just went and read the newest Finn Friday and I must say I was thourghly impressed!! I loved the idea's of setting The Buffalo Common's as a starting point but I must say one thing(seeing as how I really do live in the *Buffalo Common's* area) living here I have to disagree with what Gary said in one area.There really is a movement to create a Buffalo Commons in the Great Plains, fueled by the massive population drift as more and more people from these states are heading toward coastal states."" Actually I have found that recently what is happening is that it is just the opposite... Most of the Coastal people have been moving here since the early 80's and what is happening now is that the *Transplanted Coasties*(our own little word for them) are moving back where they came from....They came here looking for a nice place to live...But have found out the real difficulties of living in the middle of the United States... That being that it is nothing to go 50 miles( one way mind you) to get to work. That we are in the middle of an economic collapsing 5 year draught(most of our economy is set on Agriculture,Ranches and Farm's.) Our biggest cities(except for a few here and there) are under 100,000 people.(The town I live in for example is under 25,000 people and it is the biggest town around for almost 100 miles) and that we as a people are more *closed* minded about certain things,(I hate making us seem like biggots,but our values out here are such that a lot of the coasties don't understand them.) I mean for god sake 2 guy's just got arrested for wearing women's underware out of a store(yes they had paid for them) under their tee shirts as a dare(no they were not from here) and it made NATIONAL NEWS. We mostly believe in the NRA and most of us have, own and use gun's for various things(including shooting the prairie ruining rodents known around the world as The endangered species Prairie Dog's--Gasp--(have YOU ever lost $1,200USD horse because he hit a prairie dog hole and broke his leg? I have). There are alot of good reason's to live here yes If you come on down you will find we are *almost* all good,decent people that still believe in the constitution,the Power's of the president and One God under heaven....(except in my case it is ALL god's under the sky--LoL-- ). There is still alot of Coasties here, yes, but alot of them after finding out what it is like out here are moving back to what they consider civilization.
Blessed Be
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Post by TOPPER on Aug 13, 2004 16:30:04 GMT -5
ADDED SATURDAY - Lady Tass, never mind the State question. I just re-read your "Where are you from" thread and got my answer. Go Huskers!" ************************************ LadyTass, Thanks for sharing your experience. Far be from us to argue with someone on-site (would you mind sharing which fine state you're in? And if we're ever planning a story there you might find yourself tapped for research). Our writers have based these stories on information gathered through careful research but research doesn't mean truth so we're always open to other people's experiences. Certainly what you say will be taken into consideration for further backhistory development. Allow me to share however the basis of Gary's claims and the foundation of what we've already presented. The "future" imparted here and in the book "Tales of Buffalo Commons" comes from numerous sources including but not limited to www.gprc.org/Buffalo_Commons.html. In this fine article you'll see that many counties in these states have population densities below what was originally used as the bar to establish statehood. The United States Census Bureau is also of the belief that most Great Plains counties are losing population and where interior (non coastal) States are experiences growth (Nevada and Colorado included) it's rural people moving to urban centers or retirees from the coast seeking quieter environments. An alarming number of these rural to urban moves, even when within the Great Plains, are frequently followed by additional moves towards Coastal power States (New York, Texas, Florida, California etc) but this tends to be dramatic only when the economy is robust. This is not to say all Coastal states are growing. New England and the states between New York and Washington DC are depopulating at even more alarming rates. Gary's comments were based on these articles, and although they were the inspiration for the stories the dire situation of our book "Tales of Buffalo Commons" is more based on fictional elements such as a late 21st Century Ecological catastrophe (which would make the "Dust Bowl 30's" look like a fertility period) and a supposed 2nd Civil War. The population drift information merely helped determine where in the US the story would be set. If that isn't the case currently then we're all happy to hear it. Just as the news of expatriots returning home warms us. People should always have the option of living where they're comfortable, and for so many of us that will always be where we were born. As Gary said in the Interview. He welcomes the dialogue, because we don't learn otherwise. He says he'll be more careful in the future and thanks you. I thank you too (but seriously, which State, we might have questions)
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Post by ShowbizPRgirl on Aug 13, 2004 17:40:09 GMT -5
Gary, Gary, Gary...you and I must've been twins separated at birth. Every word of that excellent FINN FRIDAY interview rang true in my heart and mind, as well.
I agreed with absolutely everything you said about the delicate state of the Canadian industry, reality TV trends, your vision of the world's possible future, the effects of the war in Iraq, and the current situation with the TREK franchise.
I know a former TREK writer (a client of mine who collaborated with Gene R. to write/develop the precursor to Andromeda many years ago) and a former low-level TREK producer who's now a senior executive of development at HBO, and they absolutely despise what Berman and Braga have done to their once beloved franchise.
Dude, I've got to meet you someday. I think we could talk non-stop for 24 hours straight without disagreeing on a single subject of conversation. You totally rock!
KJC
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Post by MALCOLM XERXES™ on Aug 14, 2004 6:15:22 GMT -5
SAT. AUG. 14/2004/06:22 E.S.T.
SIRONA,
LADYTASS,
I, too, “was thoroughly impressed” by what I read, & very proud to be able to tell people that GAZ is my mate (in the Mancunian sense, rather than the Klingon!), & would have been so even had we met under circumstances different than those which brought us together.
Your willingness to challenge him on a viewpoint is something both GAZ & I respect, since it was such spirited discussion between him & me that led to our collaboration on FSQ™.
I was not aware that people tended to migrate from the coastal U.S. to the interior, then make an exodus back. I would have thought that the pattern would have been a stubborn tendency to remain, especially after having spent so much time & money, despite the threat of tornadoes. (Although, now that I think about it, I know of a family from Vancouver, British Columbia who arrived in Southern Ontario, then migrated back after only 6 months! However, there were extenuating circumstances involved therewith, & it is my own theory that if they had moved to Toronto rather than a rural area, they might have found it more like what they had been accustomed to, particularly given the proximity to Lake Ontario.)
Rock on, my Second Amendment Sister™! I think that “the right to bear arms” is 1 of the things which has made America the world power that it is, & which has helped define the character & history of your country into the unique entity it is. (Of course, my own opinion on these matters is neither sanctioned nor endorsed by, nor representative of, TITAN-RAINBOW Media Productions™ & any broadcasters who carry its programming!)
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TOPPER,
Thanks for the intel!
The sheer amount of data, & the specificity thereof, put me very much in mind of the FSQ™ panel @ TORONTO TREK 18, so I am pleased that GAZ’S interview has provoked such controversy amongst you lot, since rational communication is for me what good SF should be promoting between its readers & viewers.
“ALL gods under the sky”? Even KALI?!
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KJC,
If you find yourself in such close alignment with GAZ’S viewpoints, then I might have to propose marriage when you & I encounter each other!
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Post by TOPPER on Aug 14, 2004 11:23:23 GMT -5
The Professor has just handed me the following pic which I think might help everyone orient themselves in relation to the "TALES OF BUFFALO COMMONS" story and such. I had not previously understood that only parts of the affected States were in the "Commons". The HEARTLAND TERRITORY is some background story from the late 21st Century. The BUFFALO COMMONS borders are set between the years 2140 and 2240 approx. Additionally, this map has not yet found a home in the Technical Manual (it's scheduled for an upcoming Strategic Intelligence report) so you're seeing it here first!
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Post by ladytass2001 on Aug 14, 2004 11:58:20 GMT -5
I live in North Platte, Nebraska at the moment....I am from North west Nebraska(right around Fort Robinson)(the place that a certain Indian chief got shot in the back while tryimg to escape custody). I have lived in Nebraska for most of my life(except for a couple of very interesting years in Denver Colorado) but for the most part It has alway's been Nebraska. I do not mean to ruffle any feathers but I just thought I would make a comment that I thought would be pertinent to the topic discussed...I will agree to the economic collapse as that is very real and is actually at this very moment happening to western and central western Nebraska...and the surrounding area's...Things have gotten so bad at times out here that at one point western nebraska's Panhandle actually petitioned Nebraska to free it to be part of Wyoming. I will also agree that we may not have a great population, but the people that do live here are a pretty hardy lot(in thought as well as in deed). You kind of have to be when you live in such climatic extreme's 100 plus degrees farenheit in the summer up to 40 degree's below in the winter(though for the last 10 years we have gotten hardly any snow in the winter)add that to the scare of mad cow disease,and West Nile and well we have to live with the consequences...not that I am complaining because I wouldn't change it if I could...But I will agree that if you want a real feel for the west you have to come here to believe it...and as for filming and geographic help I would be happy to help in any way possible... I have a perfect spot already picked out in my mind for the buffalo camp area(couldn't help but imagine it as I read the story) and the most interesting part about it is that it was the site of a buffalo kill that happened 1000's of years ago!!!
******************************************** MX even though Kalli may seem the antithesis of what I believe in yes, even Kalli, for if I did not allow for the worship of others I would be no better than *other* well known forms of religion that I will decline to name....
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Post by TOPPER on Aug 14, 2004 12:08:30 GMT -5
Lady Tass, We never took it that way and hope you didn't either. We're all pretty big fans of dialogue around here so please, feel free to share and we'll share what led to our thoughts and between the lot of us we might just learn something. I hope you took our response more as a willingness to broaden our horizons than anything else. A lot can happen in the next 235 years so the writer's aren't particularly worried if a comment here or there is wrong, we can fix the backhistory easy enough if it needs it. Already the thought is to consider the "mass-migration" as a more mid-21st Century thing. But ultimately it doesn't change the story so we thank you for your input. We hate the idea of making a claim that isn't true so if your experience is that there isn't a migration then we're obviously sensitive to that. We thank you for sharing and the offer to be our eyes there further on. We also wonder if the Buffalo slaughter site you're referring to is similar to one in Alberta Canada which has been listed as a World Heritage site. It's called (and forgive us if we get it backwards here) Buffalo Jump Head Smashed In (or Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump, we can never remember which). It's quite the site and if you've got something similar down there we'd like to know if it has a name so we can use it in a future story.
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Post by ladytass2001 on Aug 14, 2004 12:33:21 GMT -5
Actually ours was the site of a mysterious buffalo kill the buffalo all just layed down and died...(they think it might have been the water the buffalo were drinking) It is called Hudson-Meng bison bone bed(something like that) but it is right around the Toadstool park area(think wild no grass, dry dusty,alkali earth with theses huge rocks that look like nothing on earth(they look like they could have been formed on the moon) I will provide a Url if you would like to check it out... net.unl.edu/artsFeat/toadstoolpark.htmlThe site is kind of neat and gives a good feel for the place(though kind of confusing,keep your mouse key depressed while moving around the picture(it will go 360 degrees make sure you look closely at your icon it will change from to time and that is how you *move* about the park.) and I didn't take your comments as a criticism---
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Post by ShowbizPRgirl on Aug 14, 2004 16:09:37 GMT -5
MALCOLM WROTE: If you find yourself in such close alignment with GAZ’S viewpoints, then I might have to propose marriage when you & I encounter each other!If you've got a set of stones (diamond and otherwise) that are big enough to impress me, Malcolm, I'll seriously consider your proposal. KJC
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Sirona
Junior Member
Posts: 98
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Post by Sirona on Aug 15, 2004 10:38:11 GMT -5
It too, would be my desire to sit with GAZ TM and discuss Malthus, Edmund Mosley (sp?), The States of Nations theory, IMF as well as the current state of world/global economies.
Also, to speak of shoes and ships and sealing wax. Of cabbages and kings and why the sea is boiling hot. And whether pigs have wings.
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Post by MALCOLM XERXES™ on Aug 15, 2004 12:19:50 GMT -5
******************************************** MX even though Kalli may seem the antithesis of what I believe in yes, even Kalli, for if I did not allow for the worship of others I would be no better than *other* well known forms of religion that I will decline to name.... SUN. AUG. 15/2004/12:27 E.S.T.
LADYTASS,
I was actually only kidding about KALI, who, like so many deities from pantheons the world over, is yet another misunderstood goddess, but 1 who just happens to remind me of less compatible girlfriends I have had in the past!
I grok the fullness of the totality concerning your remarks about That Other Religion.
Thank you for the Toadstool Park shot; it was utterly breathtaking! I have always found myself drawn to such desolate topography, whether due to the pervasive use of the PARAMOUNT™ backlot in STAR TREK™ (1966) or because of the many Westerns my adoptive father & I watched together, but there’s something about the idea of *needing* to wear boots in order to protect oneself against viperous reptiles that I find appealing.
Who was the bloke that got shot in the back, then?
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TOPPER,
It is indeed Head Smashed-in Buffalo Jump.
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KJC,
I’ll see what I can do about the diamonds, then, shall I, DAME ELIZABETH TAYLOR?
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SIRONA,
I have no doubt that such an encounter between the pair of you would be well worth witnessing.
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Post by ladytass2001 on Aug 15, 2004 13:36:44 GMT -5
MX, The bloke who shot in the back as you so eloquently put it was none other than Chief Crazy Horse,He was a warrior chief of the Sioux nation and one of the men that helped defeat the U.S. 7th Calvary at Custers last stand in, what is today, Montana.There is a plaque in place where he was shot in Fort Robinson www.greatamericantrails.com/nature_trails/bts_010.html. I can provide you with more links to Toadstool Park (and Fort Robinson if you wish).It was a place that when growing up my family went there quite alot to go hiking,fossil looking(not poaching,as we would not take the fossils we had found but we would take pictures of them and log them)and just to get away for awhile(I still find myself drawn to the location whenever I get back...) Urls for the other shots are.... www.fs.fed.us/r2/nebraska/units/prrd/toadstooltemp.html www.sorabji.com/2002/road_trip/ nebraska/toadstool/toadstool_02.html
There are quite a few other pages on the web for both parks. And you quite right about wearing your boots when out in the park it's main predator is not discrimanating when it comes to biting people or animals and being that it is indeed a prairie rattlesnake it is a definate must to look listen and be careful(being a state run park you are not allowed to kill the snakes or anything else for that matter.)
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Post by TOPPER on Aug 16, 2004 7:16:56 GMT -5
Lady Tass, Thank you. Amazing links, very informative. You've got a group of very creative people buzzing with ideas this morning.
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Post by MALCOLM XERXES™ on Aug 16, 2004 10:58:35 GMT -5
MX, The bloke who shot in the back as you so eloquently put it was none other than Chief Crazy Horse,He was a warrior chief of the Sioux nation and one of the men that helped defeat the U.S. 7th Calvary at Custers last stand in, what is today, Montana.There is a plaque in place where he was shot in Fort Robinson www.greatamericantrails.com/nature_trails/bts_010.html. <SNIP> MON. AUG. 16/2004/11:06 E.S.T.
LADYTASS,
Thanks for the intel about CHIEF CRAZY HORSE & GENERAL GEORGE CUSTER’S Last Stand @ Little Big Horn, & for the additional links, as well.
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Post by ladytass2001 on Aug 16, 2004 12:17:35 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time to look through them. I am only trying to help in any small way I can.
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